Post apocoliptic Punk

First off. I am trying to avoid anything Political.... But my Boss keeps telling me how the economy is going down, and we are about to go into another depression.....

OK..... cool.... I'm so stinking poor that I think I can live through that.... I make enough to buy rum or gin, and cigarettes...oh yeah... and some food..... Being poor in America ain't that bad.......

Anyway..... if a bad depression Does happen......

how are you going to live through it?

Kinda like the surviving a zombie attack thread..... but without money.....

I don't wanna sell apples on the street corner, so I figure I should plan ahead..... selfishness... but how or what would you do to to live happily through the maybe up coming bad times?....

Well depending on how bad things get there may be large ammounts of people fleeing the cities, which gives some prime scavenging opportunities early on.

I'd want to stay, and that probably means getting somehting of a collective together.
I figure our best bet is to take over a school. There are plenty of classrooms to convert for sleeping, and more importantly there are workshops* and kitchens.
Some have sports fields that can be turned to farmland, and any flat roofs can share between garden and water heating/solar distilling duties.
Raid the hardware stores first.

Someone will need to keep the hospitals going too (and this is another good reason to establish good hospitals within a short distance of everywhere populated. Here in Australia there is a trend towards knocking down small, local hospitals and working more on centralised ones inpopulation centres, and I think that's misguided). Luckily as I understand it they have backup generators, but it's going to take a bit to keep those going long-haul if mains power goes out. Here in Tasmania we've got just about enough hydro genarators to run the state off, but they'll need continuing maintenence...

I suppose a bit of knowledge of anarchotech would come in handy, too. Organizing nightsoill collection and bag-out-the-window refridgeration again wouldn't do us any harm if it cane to it.

I'll be trying to get a little tribe together and preserve as many people as possible. Tools and shelter, they're massive concerns.
And books! We'll need the cultural and intellectual tradition later, and I'll not see us enter another dark age. If possible someone should guard the Universities and libraries.

What will you be doing?

*Steampunk Magazine has a nice little guide on converting anything that needs rotational motion and is powered by electricity over to treadle-power, and I don't see bike-pedal conversion being that much trickier if you've got some sprockets and a welding kit.

Silas Morgan wrote:First off.I make enough to buy rum or gin

With a little googling I am certain you won't need money for alchohol, you will be able to brew your own moonshine!

Also I would like to refare all to Issue 3 of steampunk magazine and thier guide to the apocalypse, more than useful tools for when the apocalypse comes
They can be downloaded here.


As for me I'm prepared, a good scavenger come hunter-gatherer/mad scientist

And I work in healthcare so I have access to all those big generators

Healthcare is not negotiable, the price is, but given that the organisation I work for considers it their mission to care for the poor and needy we already provide no-cost healthcare for some people... We're not going to stop doing what we do because the economy falters.

We might have to dip more into our reserves and cut some of our expenses.

If we're talking apocalypse not just depression then that's different. I try and make sure I have as many skills as possible (because I like having them) and that will be a definite plus if civilisation collapses. I have relatives with a similar outlook in a fairly rural area with a large bit of spare land. If it came to it we would probably move over there, and work together.

Z.

Yeah, not exactly the Apocalypse, but a really bad depression. I'm still thinking about some parts of it, but how things would change...

For example, the internet... Right now I pay (well my Boss pays) $45.00 a month for DSL. in a bad depression, that money might be better spent on food (or drink), but I still need to be able to e-mail renderings, so I might have to downgrade to only dial-up. I know that switching from DSL to dial-up doesn't sound terribly important, but the internet has become a large part of my life. During the last depression, they didn't have such a valuable form of communication available to them, but I work and play on the internet.

I know worrying about internet access may sound petty, but it is just one of the things taken for granted that might be changed.

I very much doubt that the economy will get that bad. Every twenty or so years there's a depression of some kind, unless there's a war in which case it will be delayed by the temporary economic boost associated by government spending.

But if this was to be a big one, let's take a look back at the Great Depression.
Mass layoffs
You loose your job and can't find another. If you don't loose it, you can forget a raise because there's a thousand who were laid off who'd be happy to take your place.

Mad inflation
And you'll need that raise because you won't be able to afford any of the modest luxuries you've come to love and rely on.

Rising prices
...pretty much the same as inflation, but I like having at least three points. You can imagine what high prices will do anyway.


For myself, the family farm that my Dad and Uncle run would be able to make enough food for myself and my family once it had been converted back from a tree nursery. I'd just move down to Ft. Gibson and become a farmer. The biggest worry is that Communism would become popular, and they'd try to take it away from us. But that at least would give me an excuse to turn the tractors into tanks, and that would almost make the whole thing worth while.

Wireless internet might be available in your area for less than DSL. Some coffee shops provide internet access for free to customers. Libraries also do. Some people deliberately provide free wireless internet to anyone in their area.

If you don't have a wireless card you might want to consider buying one, or borrowing one from a friend and seeing if you have wireless access at your house. (know anyone who could bring their laptop over?) Of course then you're relying on someone else, but...

Look at this directory to see if there might be a free wifi spot in your area.

Z.

I've noticed that most of Forbes' list of Depression-Proof cities have large/growing steampunk communities. Coincidence?

If the economy falls, it could actually be the birth of steampunk as something truly big, finally as a lifestyle I suppose. Well, if it does happen, who wants to start a steampunk hamlet somewhere?

i'de probably survive the same way my grandparents did,gardens,have my own chickens,and try my bst to maintains a job for others stuff...oh and indian comodaties. yuppers.... survived the 80's on my own garden i 'spect i could survive a depression with one. (hell i still got home made pickles in my cellar from 1989!)

BaronPablo wrote:I've noticed that most of Forbes' list of Depression-Proof cities have large/growing steampunk communities. Coincidence?

If the economy falls, it could actually be the birth of steampunk as something truly big, finally as a lifestyle I suppose. Well, if it does happen, who wants to start a steampunk hamlet somewhere?

If it comes to it we could do worse than this when rebuilding. I imagine travel would be somwhat more difficult in such a scenario, so I expect any collectives that spring up will have to be localised, but should the regrettable event occur I'll be trying to make sure we inject a certain ammount of beauty into anything we make.

Edit: And that's more than a little impressive, Boo.

I know I'm feeling it. I just got laid off from the Hospital I worked at, as they decided that they didn't need nursing assistants anymore, what with the economic crunch. I think that we're going to see a lot more co-op activity, people sharing homes, growing their own food, and using "recycled" materials in their fashions and everyday lives.
I know I haven't bought gas in over a month due to going almost 100% bicycle powered. Initially out of necessity, though I don't really mind so much anymore, and will keep it up regardless of my financial situation improving or not.

Sorry to hear that you got laid off....

but the part about riding a bicycle. kinda gets to the point..... gas cost a lot, so how/what do you do to save money?......

The changes that would happen during a depression.....

I'm sure there are quite a few of us that would survive it, but what would we have to give up?

The DIY part kinda will save a lot of us..... what was the "line" from the Depression..."use it up, make do.. or do with out......"(something kinda like that) We have the advantage that we are already playing that concept..... might be a saving grace fer us......

Oh it was: Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without. And it was used both during the Great Depression and during the rationing that accompanied World War II. I still use it today...I prefer saving money to spending it on silly stuff.

Myself I'm a lab chemist by training (meaning building a still is a no-brainer), and my uncle has space in his house and brews, so if worst comes to worst...for medicinal purposes only, of course...

Same guy is also a semi-survivalist; they do a lot of hunting, gardening, and canning and have a fair bit of land. That's where I'd probably go if I had to leave my current living situation.

As far as Internet connection, assuming libraries and coffee shops (don't forget there's usually a minimum order of coffee, though) can afford to offer it that is indeed a reasonable option. Though as long as there are jobs available, you're probably better off keeping some sort of (secure) connection at home, to better facilitate your search. If we're talking apocalyptic rather than simply depressive here though, Internet connection might not be available at all.

Oh, thank goodness, I was going mad without Brassgoggles.

I already garden from the third story apartment balconies. I freeze what I can, and am certainly planning to learn how to can, and to get a plot in the local community garden. I sew and knit, so if worst comes to worst our clothing is safe. A hobby that is being praised on the You Grow Girl! website is called guerilla gardening. I'll leave the meaning of that for you to find, but I am amused by this green graffitti.

I also reccomend a vegetarian diet. Before the carnivores among us get up in arms, I am NOT an animal rights activist. I started this for our own economic reasons and for my health, but a five serving pack of tofu costs half of a pound of hamburger and is marvellous when combined with tomato pasta sauce and noodles. Just be careful, after about two weeks of this I found that I am one of those rare ones that can no longer digest meat products. Try for a couple of weeks and test with a meat meal or phase it out.

But gardening plus vegetarianism makes a low food bill.

I understand Toronto (Ontario)'s Animal Control bylaws have recently been revised to permit backyard chickens, for both eggs and meat. (Noise bylaws prohibit roosters, so you'll need to buy more chickens once you've eaten them all ) Another option would be rabbits, which are quiet and breed like, um, rabbits; either option will provide the non-squeamish homeowner, or someone with access to roof-garden space, with animal protein which is far more economical than supermarket meat, and which is probably competitive with (and far tastier than) supermarket tofu.

Of course, when the Collapse comes I have an actual farm to move back to, provided I can actually get from here to there...

BaronPablo wrote:I've noticed that most of Forbes' list of Depression-Proof cities have large/growing steampunk communities. Coincidence?

If the economy falls, it could actually be the birth of steampunk as something truly big, finally as a lifestyle I suppose. Well, if it does happen, who wants to start a steampunk hamlet somewhere?

Out of curiousity, what cities might fall into that list?

JingleJoe wrote:

Silas Morgan wrote:First off.I make enough to buy rum or gin

With a little googling I am certain you won't need money for alchohol, you will be able to brew your own moonshine!

Also I would like to refare all to Issue 3 of steampunk magazine and thier guide to the apocalypse, more than useful tools for when the apocalypse comes
They can be downloaded here.


As for me I'm prepared, a good scavenger come hunter-gatherer/mad scientist

Well I plan to commandeer a vehicle of substantial size and then join Joe in our stronghold. Did I say stronghold? I meant 'Secret Project'...

von Corax wrote:I understand Toronto (Ontario)'s Animal Control bylaws have recently been revised to permit backyard chickens, for both eggs and meat. (Noise bylaws prohibit roosters, so you'll need to buy more chickens once you've eaten them all ) Another option would be rabbits, which are quiet and breed like, um, rabbits; either option will provide the non-squeamish homeowner, or someone with access to roof-garden space, with animal protein which is far more economical than supermarket meat, and which is probably competitive with (and far tastier than) supermarket tofu.

Of course, when the Collapse comes I have an actual farm to move back to, provided I can actually get from here to there...

Yeah, but you can't live off rabbit. Takes the iron out of your body. Maybe once or twice a week, if you eat it with plenty of thyme.

Gazongola wrote:

Yeah, but you can't live off rabbit. Takes the iron out of your body. Maybe once or twice a week, if you eat it with plenty of thyme.

Actually, domesticated rabbit is fine. It's hares that you want to watch out for. (Which would include the confusingly-named jackrabbit.) It's also very tasty in a pie with vegetables.

Though living solely off of any single foodstuff has got to be bad for you in some way, be it physical or psychological.
That said, guinea fowl make good eating, particularly when stewed with pumpkin and celery.

My Boss have a few chickens she raises for their eggs (much tastier than what you get in a Supermarket). She feeds them food scraps supplemented with some chicken food (when there are not enough food scraps.)

I live up in the Mountains, so there are plenty of squirrels and raccoons, and deer if I wanted to do a little off season hunting (but I think even in a bad Depression, the game laws would still be in effect) But the black powder guns and rifles that I own are really cheap to shoot....(gotta love flintlocks....)

I'm thinking of buying a few more (used) copy's of some of the Foxfire Books, for part of my "How to Survive a Depression Library"..... Right now, I have quite a few good Reference/How-to-do-it books, but the Foxfire, and that one by (I think it's Readers Digest...on simple/country living (I'll have to look up the title, and post it later.))(and a good "how to brew Beer" book) would be handy additions....

I've done a lot of different periods of Living-History, so a lot of the information, skills and equipment I have "picked-up" along the way will be very useful. (Wool blankets still work when the power is out, as do oil lamps. (I just hope I don't have to resort to "fat" lamps... they work, but smoke badly.))

Of course, some of the modern (what I call "Hippy-Tech" ) will also be useful. I'm starting to scrounge old solar-powered garden lamps that have burned out batterys... going to break them apart for the solar cells for a project for Burning Man...(OK in a bad Depression, I may not be able to go...) but the recycled solar panels could still be used.....

This is something that's been really praying on my mind of late... though watching Seasons 1 & 2 of Jericho, might have somehing to do with it!

Any books people can recommend?

The book I was thinking of is...."Reader's Digest Back to Basics: How to Learn and Enjoy Traditional American Skills" Amazon is selling copys for $24.00, but I've seen it in used bookstores for much less.

To survive, you need Food, Clothing and Shelter... But there is more to life than just surviving....
So far we've discussed how to survive a Depression, But more importantly (and more fun) is how to do it with some style and class......

Just some random thoughts....

A wind-up pocket watch doesn't need batterys.

Once you have a fountain pen, refilling it is inexpensive (and there is a huge choice of ink colors available)

A vest and frock coat looks good, and will keep you warm in Winter (OK... maybe add a scarf, gloves and top coat if it's really cold)

A straight razor may be scarry to shave with, but it will last almost forever.

A sundial doesn't need batteries either. Time is relative, you might well not care what time/day it is so much. Get up with the sun and go to bed with it... You get shorter winter days and longer summer ones (unless you live at one of the poles) you make the most of the daylight, without wasting too much money on resources (like electricity).

Cooking over a real fire can be fun and lends itself well to single pan entrees like stew and soup.

Cool Tools http://www.kk.org/cooltools/ has a bunch of useful links in different sections. Kevin Kelly who started it was one of the editors of the Whole Earth Review.

Z.

It also occurred to me that in a post-apocalyptic environment natural foodstuffs could be contaminated from biological, bacterial, chemical or nuclear agents, so people wh#ould have to rely on tinned and packet foodstuffs. What would be the lon-term health scenario for people living that life... none too happy one assumes!

Also... is composting really worth doing, what, apart from making fertilizer, can you do with the stuff you compost?


I'll have a look for the Readers Digest book... any other depression survival guides out there?

neon_suntan wrote:
Also... is composting really worth doing, what, apart from making fertilizer, can you do with the stuff you compost?

It helps improve the overall condition of the soil, so very definitely - especially if viable land to grow stuff in is at any sort of premium - the nutirents need to be kept topped up

Also I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Victorians used the heat form things like compost heaps to grow stuff with. But I can't find the reference right now...